Interview with an Orthodox Sex Therapist: Talli Yehuda Rosenbaum

Talli Yehuda Rosenbaum is a physical therapist who also specializes in sex counseling and treatment of sexual problems. She is one of few such therapists within the religious community in Israel. She has graciously agreed to answer a few questions.

Mother in Israel: When I took a group class on Taharat Hamishpacha before my marriage, the teacher refused to discuss sex explicitly. She said that the couple, with patience and kindness, would learn from each other. What do you think of this approach? Are things changing? How long does it take for most couples to work things out in the beginning?

Talli: I think it is unfortunate. Patience and kindness is nice, but if sexual education is not provided by madrichim and madrichot (counselors who teach brides and grooms Jewish law relevant to marriage), couples will look for it through other resources, including the internet and books. Some of what they find may be OK, but much of it may be misinformation, or not culturally sensitive to Orthodox people.

I do think that things are changing, and there are many more madrichim and madrichot talking to young people about sex. As for your last question, that would depend on what you mean by "work things out." Do you mean, figure out how to have intercourse? Figure out how to enjoy sex? Figure out what the partner wants? The sexual relationship is ongoing, and so couples are working things out throughout the marriage.

MiI: Can you give an estimate about the percentage of couples in the Orthodox community who need outside help? How does that compare to the general population?

Talli: Interesting question, which requires empirical research to answer. My colleagues and I did a study on this and found that the rates for dysfunction are slightly higher than in the general population, and in our sample, the rates for seeking psychological treatment of some sort were fairly high as well. However, our sample was highly educated, and this group tends to seek treatment in greater number. So the short answer is no, I can't.

MiI: What are the factors that make the beginning of a marriage and sexual relationship more challenging for observant couples?

Talli: In the Orthodox community sexuality is not generally viewed as a developmental process, but rather as something that becomes relevant once you are married. This is challenging for many reasons. One is that young people are often at a loss regarding how to deal with their sexual feelings, may be used to repressing them, or feeling guilty about them, and then suddenly need to view those feelings and experience them differently. . Another, is that the expectation to go from complete sexual inexperience to complete intercourse in one or two nights is a difficult one. Finally, the transitions in the beginning from no touching at all to being sexual are often very difficult for a newly married couple . . . especially after that first time when they have to separate.

MiI: How common is sexual activity before marriage in our community?

Talli: I don't think that has been studied.

MiI: Where can a young couple turn when they are having sexual issues?

Talli: Sometimes they can speak to their madrichim and madrichot. Depending on the community (modern orthodox, haredi, etc,) there are various organizations that can be helpful such as Machon Puah. But overall, there are not readily available resources to deal specifically with issues of sex.

MiI: How can parents better prepare their children for marriage?

Talli: I believe in modeling positive behavior and so I think that children who experience parents who are loving and affectionate to one another, or give each other a hug or kiss , will get the message that sexuality is a positive and natural part of marriage. Haredim tend not to to show physical affection in front of children, but the message can be conveyed through warm and loving verbal behavior as well. If a parent never talks about sex, it will feel weird once the child reaches marriage age to hear their parent even mention it. Parents need to convey the message to their children from a young age, that this is not a taboo subject . Children's questions on the subject should be answered in an honest and age appropriate manner.

MiI: What can we do as a community to promote better sex education?

Parents can request that religious schools include a culturally sensitive sex education program. There have been such programs developed for modern orthodox schools.

Community members can organize lectures for shul sisterhoods on the subject of intimacy. These are just a couple of examples. Perhaps the readers of your blog can come up with some ideas of their own.

MiI: How did you get into this field?

Talli: While treating women with intimate problems related to the pelvic floor, such as incontinence, I found that many women had questions about sex and no one to ask. Women (and men) want to know what is "normal." I mainly got in to this field, though, because as a physical therapist, I was seeing women having pain with sex, or inability to allow intercourse. This is still an area that I work with, mostly. But you can not just treat the pain without understanding the context, and knowing how to relate to the multiple issues involved, including the woman's feelings about sex, her anxieties, and the marital relationship. So I still treat as a physical therapist but also provide sexual counseling.

MiI: What do your children tell their friends about what you do?
Talli: Let's just say it is certainly a topic of conversation amongst them, for better or for worse.

MiI: Are there any other questions I should ask?

Talli: You can ask me how one can go about seeing me. My email is tallr@netvision.net.il I can be reached at 0 50 5 689 572 for appointments. I see clients in Jerusalem, Bet Shemesh and Tel Aviv. My website is www.physioforwomen.com

MiI: Thank you, Talli, for visiting and sharing your thoughts.

Navigating an Israeli Supermarket

I once read a blog post by an American on an extended visit to Israel, raving about how much easier it is to keep kosher in Israel than in the US. True, a variety of kosher food is available just about everywhere in Israel. But keeping kosher in Israel is far from simple.

Lately we have been shopping at Aleph, one of the haredi chains. They tend to focus more on basic items and family-sized packages. The disadvantage is that meat and dairy products with a mehadrin/haredi supervision are much more expensive. But a few years ago Aleph added a selection of meat and dairy products under the supervision of the Israeli rabbinate.

Another issue with products under haredi supervision is that they often contain more fillers and sugars than those with the standard supervision, in order to make the price attractive to haredi families with less disposable income. Examples include "Danuba" mehadrin yogurt, which contains added starch, and Telma Shefa Cornflakes, which contain more sugar than Telma Cornflakes. It pays to read labels.

The brakes on our car began acting up during Pesach, and we are awaiting a replacement part by airmail. My husband takes the bus to work and I avoid carpool arrangements on principle, but shopping is a hassle. Last week I took the bus to one store only to discover, at the checkout, that they don't deliver. Fortunately I ran into a neighbor who gave me a ride home. The other day I put out an SOS to some friends and E. replied that she was planning to go shopping and would be happy to take me along.

Since E. once referred to me as someone who "writes a blog for new olim (immigrants)," I guess it's appropriate to use our trip to share some examples of unusual things a kosher consumer might find in an Israeli supermarket.

E. took me to a large chain store that I used to visit regularly. Because some items were much cheaper than at Aleph, I used to alternate between the stores every few weeks to stock up on cheaper items. But at one point I stopped because the price on those items came down in Aleph. I see now that that was a mistake; canned goods, for example, are significantly cheaper at the store we visited this week.

Since I was last there, the store, along with most of the city's supermarkets, lost its rabbinic supervision. The local rabbinate, known for its zealousness (it refuses to certify restaurants for Passover if they serve legumes), withdrew supervision for any store selling a popular brand of meat. The rabbinate claimed to have found serious irregularities in the factory. This has since been resolved, but the rabbinate also refuses to certify stores that rely on the heter mechirah during this sabbatical year. Some of the fresh food counters did have a kashrut certificate, and most products come in packages sealed by the manufacturer. But there are still issues.

Take this package of chicken wings. It looks like the frozen pieces were taken out of a box, placed on a tray, and wrapped in plastic. The Tnuva sticker was almost certainly slapped on by a store worker. And without supervision on the store itself, I have no assurance that the chicken came from where the label says it does.
Here's another concern for the kosher shopper. Note this sign on the freezer display:

The animal from which this cut of meat was taken has been slaughtered properly according to Jewish law, but not "kashered." Kashering meat involves soaking, salting and rinsing the meat in order to remove the blood. Hardly anyone soaks and salts meat at home; I've never done it, because the kosher butchers and meat-packers take care of it. Presumably the people buying it here prefer it because it's cheaper than kashered meat, and they don't keep kosher anyway.

This pitfall has nothing to do with kashrut:

The label reads "GROUND CHICKEN: From superior ground chicken meat." The smaller letters read, "With the addition of vegetable protein." If you want to know what percentage is meat, forget it. The label won't help you here. Instead, a notice warns consumers to eat the product only when fully cooked; I saw this on other products as well. I'm guessing this is a new well-meaning law on the books, like the one requiring every product containing gluten to be labelled as such. That law backfired, because companies afraid of lawsuits by the gluten-sensitive public began putting the labels on everything.

Then I went to look at the frozen vegetables. My husband still doesn't like me to buy "heter mechirah" produce (sigh) so I had to read the fine print here too:


The one on the left says it is kosher "according to heter mechirah" and the one on the left says that it's "yevul shishit," meaning that it comes from the produce of the sixth year. (It also has an extra "Badatz" kashrut symbol.) I once noticed a similar sign on a can of tomato paste several years after shmittah. it must have been the second or third year of the sabbatical cyle, so I thought the product was a few years old. Later realized that I wasn't meant to take the mention of the sixth year literally; it simply indicated that the produce was not from the problematical seventh year of the sabbatical cycle.

At that point E. reminded me that we needed to check that the store had sold its chametz. One may not eat leavened foods that were in the possession of a Jew over the Passover holiday. There are some products I generally buy in the shuk (open-air market), such as burgul (bulgur) wheat, but not immediately after Pesach; I only buy burgul, flour, pasta, and oats in a store that has sold its chametz. So while E. finished up her shopping I located the following sign:

This assures the customers that the chametz was properly sold. However, the mashgiach (kashrut supervisor) emphasizes that he cannot vouch for the kashrut of the store or any of its products, either on Pesach or year-round.

I half-expected a store worker to ask me why I was taking pictures. After all, this store used to have a sign at the entrance warning customers against writing down prices. But no one seemed to care.

I've only touched superficially on some of the kashrut issues and I hope that my less knowledgeable readers were able to follow.

Many thanks to E. for shlepping me and my groceries, and for vicariously contributing to this post. And join me in wishing her mazal tov on marrying off her oldest son.

Rashi's Daughters, Book I: Jocheved

My friend, who ordered Rashi's Daughters, Book I: Jocheved by Maggie Anton for our book club, asked me to read it and tell her my thoughts. Not having read any reviews I didn't know what to expect.

Anton introduces us to the life of the renowned classical Biblical and Talmudic commentator Rabbi Salomon Isaac of Troyes (Rashi) and his family. The oldest daughter, Jocheved, studies Talmud with her father and borrows her father's tefillin (phylacteries) to say morning prayers.

We learn about the family's meals, bathroom habits (they collect moss to use for toilet paper), menstrual cycles, parchment making and wine-making (Anton assumes that Rashi is a vintner, although this may be a myth).

It's fascinating to speculate on the daily life of an important Jewish family in the 11th century, even though the portrait of Rashi's family is too intimate and completely unbelievable. But as Anton states in the afterword, ". . . because I am writing fiction, I can say whatever I like."

The second half of the book, leading up to the wedding of Yocheved and Meir, includes long discussions about the characters' sexual frustrations and quotations of what appear to be every existing Talmudic passage relating to sex. Anton throws in some quotes from Tractate Kallah (Bride), which her readers probably think is an ancient sex manual. In fact, after reading this book you might think the Talmud is entirely about women and sex with a bit of winemaking on the side.

In one scene, Rashi catches Meir and Yocheved kissing. (The yeshiva bachurim, or unmarried students, board in Rashi's house.) After he orders her to review the fourth commandment (either Anton means the fifth commandment, honoring one's parents, or she assumes her readers follow the Christian numeration), Jocheved blames Rashi for both delaying her wedding and being away so much when she was small. Thus chastised, Rashi takes Meir aside and shares in graphic detail the difficulties he experienced on his own wedding night, because he had relied on texts with no father or brother to explain things. Finally, Rashi indicates to the engaged couple that he will look the other way if they fool around in the future.

I couldn't finish this book.

FLYing and landing

I discovered Flylady when I was pregnant with my fifth child. She took the best of SHE, imbued it with her own unique style and transferred it from a filebox to the internet.

Flylady immediately got rid of SHE's biggest problem. She says that the index cards made you feel guilty, and guilt keeps you from cleaning your house. Her attitude is to "Jump in wherever you are. You are not behind."

She divides the house into five zones, one for each week (or part thereof) in the month. In the beginning you focus on getting rid of clutter in each "zone." Once your clutter is gone (and even if you give up on Flylady at this point, you will never accumulate so much again), you work on keeping the zone orderly and clean. Another Flylady trademark, borrowed from SHE, is to get fully dressed each morning including lace-up shoes (so you can't take them off) and makeup (for women). The idea is that you should take your housework seriously, like a real job.

I followed Flylady's plan faithfully for at two or three years. The height of my Flylady experience (or should I say my highest flight?) was the day I ran into a friend while dropping off a child at gan. The friend had an hour to kill so I invited her home. She couldn't believe how neat the house was and how great I looked (I was wearing makeup) even though I had a young baby. For a long time, I didn't want to tell her about Flylady. Partly I was embarrassed to be following this clearly insane woman from North Carolina. But the bigger reason is that it felt like cheating. It's amazing how many hangups we can have about housework. In the end I told her, because, after all, I had cleaned my house, not Flylady.

The friend joined, and felt that Flylady was almost like a mother to her. Her own mother had never taught her homemaking.

Flylady spends little time on techniques, although if she comes across a timesaver she passes it on. It doesn't matter how you clean, as long as you do it. You start by shining your sink every night. Theoretically, if you keep one small part of your house clean the rest will follow. Once shining your sink is second nature, you decide to keep your kitchen table cleared. At the same time she encourages you to get rid of the clutter, the guilt and the perfectionism.

Perfectionism was a big one for me. When I had cleaning help, I criticized them (in my mind) because they left gunk on the sink strainer. In the meantime, without the help my own house was full of dust and clutter.

At some point I got tired of Flylady's exhortations and dozens of daily emails. I couldn't manage to really stick to the routines. Also, while she has toned down the Christian aspect a lot, the longer I live here the more talk about "blessings" bothered me.

I didn't tell my husband about Flylady and during the whole period of decluttering, shiny sinks and rotating Zones, my husband never commented. He is much better about putting things away than I am, and I'm sure that deep down he noticed and appreciated it. He just didn't get around to expressing it.

Frugality is not a high priority for Flylady. If you follow her system you will save money because you won't buy things you don't need, you'll locate what you already own and you'll be a better planner. But she encourages you to buy nice things and to use disposables. Participation is free, but she sells a lot of stuff to support her website. I own her duster, but I'm not sure it works on the thick Israeli dust (I have an Israeli friend who is convinced that dust doesn't exist in America); I prefer a slightly damp rag.

Another thing that caused me to let up on Flylady was becoming pregnant with #6. During the pregnancy we had a crisis involving one of our children, and (unrelated to the crisis) sold our old apartment. We had moved into our previous apartment with one child and moved out with six. The previous owner of the new apartment lost his father the day we were supposed to get the keys, we suffered from traumatic renovations that culminated in moving in with no kitchen, and we celebrated our son's Bar Mitzvah a few weeks later. With the backdrop of my stepmother's terminal illness (she was diagnosed the day #6 was born and died a year later), this meant that last week, 3.5 years after ordering the kitchen, I finally figured out how to shine the glass on my oven doors.

Author Henkin: "My wife is not a JAP"

Josh Henkin, guest-blogging on Jewess about his new book Matrimony:

I dated non-Jews over the years, but most of my serious relationships were with Jewish women, and the woman I married is Jewish. She fits none of the stereotypes of the Jewish woman—she’s not a Jewish American Princess, nor is she pushy or overbearing—stereotypes that, in any case, I think they are unfair or, at the very least, aren’t examined critically enough.

Am I the only one to find this offensive? If he married a Pole, would he need to mention that she was intelligent, or that his Asian wife was not docile? He doesn't need to bring his wife into the picture. As my mother would say, "Comparisons are odious."

By praising his wife in this way, he subtly condones intermarriage (as he apparently does in the book). Because there probably aren't enough non-pushy, non-JAPpy, non-overbearing Jewish women to go around for discerning Jewish men like himself.

Here's the comment I left:

Interesting that Henkin needs to prove that while he preferred to marry a Jewess, he would never have married a “stereotypical” Jewish woman. The qualifying statements only make it worse. Sign me,
Proud to be a pushy, overbearing, brunette JAP.

Update: Jewess responded here, but so far no word from Henkin.